chest fridge revisted

12/04/2007 - 04:01
mrgripe's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 2005-01-10

Ever since Ponyboy posted a link to the plans for converting a chest freezer into a refrigerator that uses only 0.1 kWh a day to run, I have been very keen to make a similar conversion. For those who don't know what I am referring to here's the link: http://www.mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html

Anyway, I am not an electricity expert by any stretch, but I do have an electrical engineering friend who is interested in making a few of the conversion boxes and I wanted to see if there was anyone else either interested in converting one of these fridges or if someone else has tried it and could share their experiences. Thanks Ryan



Comments

12/05/2007 - 23:33
ponyboy's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 199
Joined: 2005-09-18
Woo Hoo! :-)

I've been thinking about this for awhile but right now I'm not in any position to do anything about it. :-( No place to put things.
At one time I thought about refurbishing some old chest freezers like this and selling them to a place in town that sells solar panels.

There's a refrigerator I saw the other day on HGTV. It was like a chest freezer but it had three drawers instead of the top lid.
Each drawer acted like its own chest so the cold wouldn't spill out. It made it allot easier to get food.

--

When I die I want to die in my sleep like my Grandfather.
Not screaming and yelling like his passengers.



12/28/2007 - 13:52
Will Dye's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 111
Joined: 2007-04-13
Definitely interested Ryan

I'm about as electrical as the Ahmish but if you get something worked out with that fridge idea I want a piece of the action. Sounds like a great idea and why isn't it already popular in our country?



12/29/2007 - 20:34
rreidnauer's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 832
Joined: 2005-03-09
The simple (and harshly candid) answer

Will Dye wrote:
Sounds like a great idea and why isn't it already popular in our country?

Simply put, it'd be too "inconvenient" for most Americans. Having to bend over and reach down for what you want is more trouble than most folks want to tolerate. People want to be inconvenienced as little as possible. People buy 'fridges with ice makers in the door, not because it's energy efficient, but because all they got to do is put their glass there, and the 'fridge does the rest.

Also, electric is cheap. Nearly all 'fridges cost less than $100/year to operate, some as little as $40/year. While energy efficiency may be considered when purchasing, it takes a back seat to features and conveniences.

So, who's left for the market? Those who can't get commercial power and produce there own (limited) supply. That market is quite small, and not widely profitable. (despite commercially built, specialized equipment, built in limited quantity as being quite expensive)

--

Rod Reidnauer
Class of Apr. 9-10, 2005
Current Status Searching for land
Thinking outside the vinyl sided box
My Log Home



12/29/2007 - 22:15
huffjohndeb's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2007-12-05
Propane Fridge

Why tax your off the grid electrical system with a "Ben Dover" fridge. The Amish have been using propane fridges for decades.

I have a power pole on my property and I'm going to connect to the grid. I would be willing to bet that in the long run being on the grid is cheaper than off the grid. Consider the cost of heavy gauge copper wire, batteries, Photo cells, wind turbines, charge controllers and invertors. If your wind turbine gets blown over or simply breaks that has to be repaired at your expense. In colorado we have wind farms that produce actually a very small percentage of our power but it's a step in the right direction.

That said if it is going to cost $50k to connect to the grid then being your own power company makes economic sense. I guess the argument could be made that being independent gives us power over the elements and Big Brother but propane generators are not terribly expensive for the worst case scenario off power outages.

--

The Coors pure rocky mountain stream "North Clear Creek"



12/30/2007 - 17:45
LHBA Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 2005-11-23

12/30/2007 - 19:15
rreidnauer's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 832
Joined: 2005-03-09
I actually thought about

I actually thought about doing something similar for AC, using the solar powered ice maker featured at Homepower and make a heat exchanger to cool a room. Problem was, there simply isn't enough BTUs in ice for it to work, BUT it would work nicely for a 'fridge. If you don't mind handling ice once a day, it is completely non-electric.

I'll likely start off using a propane 'fridge, since I already have one.

Still, the chest freezer/refrigerator conversion looks pretty darn good, even for those on limited RE generation.

--

Rod Reidnauer
Class of Apr. 9-10, 2005
Current Status Searching for land
Thinking outside the vinyl sided box
My Log Home



01/09/2008 - 09:45
rbuchanan_2's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 294
Joined: 2005-01-10
Chest fridge revisited

How does the chest freezer-fridge compare to a Sunfrost?

100W/h -day @240v AC
compared to
320W/h day @ 12V DC X 103% for inverter losses (Xantrex).

A great teacher and electrician explained electrical wiring and systems to me in plain english.
Still didn't get it. I can teach you how to design a subsonic plane but I can't wire a toaster.
Anyone...anyone?

-Rick

--

What good fortune for those in power for people who do not think.
-Hitler

You're "paranoid" until something happens. After that, you were just "well prepared".



01/09/2008 - 11:04
huffjohndeb's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2007-12-05
AC vs DC

AC is much more efficient to transmit/transfer over long distances than DC that is why the grid is AC. Wire sizes can be smaller due to less loses in the copper wire. AC can not easily be stored while DC can. To power the DC fridge the battery bank would have to be very close to the fridge. I guess that’s ok if your floor plan has the utility room directly behind the fridge otherwise battery acid and food go together like Ice cream and Ketchup. Have you priced Copper wire lately?

--

The Coors pure rocky mountain stream "North Clear Creek"



01/10/2008 - 17:33
rreidnauer's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 832
Joined: 2005-03-09
A watt is a watt . . . . .

rbuchanan_2 wrote:
How does the chest freezer-fridge compare to a Sunfrost?

100W/h -day @240v AC
compared to
320W/h day @ 12V DC X 103% for inverter losses (Xantrex).

A great teacher and electrician explained electrical wiring and systems to me in plain english.
Still didn't get it. I can teach you how to design a subsonic plane but I can't wire a toaster.
Anyone...anyone?

-Rick


. . . . . . irregardless of voltage or current type. So, that makes the chest freezer/fridge three times more efficient than the Sunfrost. But in either case, they are both very efficient.

--

Rod Reidnauer
Class of Apr. 9-10, 2005
Current Status Searching for land
Thinking outside the vinyl sided box
My Log Home



01/10/2008 - 18:58
huffjohndeb's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2007-12-05
How much energy was lost before it made it to either fridge?

True a Watt is a Watt but I would choose based on the price and the current or planned electrical distribution system. If the battery bank is 50 wire feet from the fridge the wire size for 2% loss would need to be #4 AWG wire ($$$) then the AC model would be best # 14 AWG wire (cheap). If the battery bank is 6 wire feet from the fridge the DC model would still require #8AWG wire size ($$). Another alternative would be to place a 12V deep cell battery in a cabinet close to the fridge then run smaller wire for charging the battery.

For me I'm going to connect to the grid and get an inexpensive fridge that is decently energy efficient. If it takes 20 years to recoup the energy savings it's not worth it.

--

The Coors pure rocky mountain stream "North Clear Creek"



01/10/2008 - 23:36
huffjohndeb's picture
LHBA Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 2007-12-05
Wattage versus Volts and Amps to put things into perspective

Wimpy Hand held Hair Dryer 6’ cord 300 Watts 115 Volts 2.6 Amps standard Wire size 14AWG from the source 24 wire feet away. 8 cents per foot 1 conductor at least 2 required 16 cents per foot.

Wimpy DC Hand Held Hair dryer 6’ cord 300 Watts 12 Volts 25 Amps #2 AWG wire size from the source 24 feet away. Wire price $1.26 per foot 1 conductor at least 2 required $2.52 per foot.

Watts = the amount of water delivered
Amps = the flow or force of the water
Volts = the diameter of the hose

DC Distribution system, think in terms of a fire hose
AC Distribution system, think in terms of a garden hose

To gain even more perspective
Look at the cord size on a toaster oven. Your Toaster oven requires 1800 watts to toast bread.
Look at your car battery cables. Your car requires 1800 watts to crank it.

So yes a watt is a watt but Amps or ampacity (size of the water hose) don’t play.

Just for comparison By my calculations "that dog don't hunt"
How does the chest freezer-fridge compare to a Sunfrost? 8 Cu Foot $899 ned two to satisfy my wife 16 Cu Foot $1798 7.2 Kwh

100W/h -day @240v AC X 365 days 3.6Kw/h a year How mush does this bad boy cost? I checked -> 8 Cu Foot $899 need two to satisfy my wife 16 Cu Foot $1798 7.2 Kwh. Lets not forget the freezer PRICE: $1,700.00 size unspecified energy usage unspecified.

Total system $3498 cost for a smaller/fridge freezer comparable to the normal store bought unit.
24' foot of wire $60.48
Batteries $152
charge controller, solar panels wind generators cost? Ball park low end estimate $12,000

so for $15,000 you can save $40 a year so in 360 ($600 factored in for cost of normal fridge) years this system is paid for assuming it doesn't break...
Like I said that dog don't hunt. If you can connect to the grid for lets say $2500 then it would only take 297 years to get paid back.

18 Cu Foot fridge/top freezer 479 Kwh year energy usage, annual operating cost $40 cost to purchase around $600

Why do we have a grid?
lets look at 1000 homes for comparison
1000 wood stoves for heat How much green house gas is emitted?

One Hydro electric generator cost shared by 1000 green house gas emitted virtually none. Ok so some sideways salamanders lost their habitat, what about the lost habitat for all the fire wood that was cut.

No water for Hydro use coal I'm willing to bet one coal plant for 1000 homes emits less green house gases than 1000 wood stoves.

By the way I'm changing careers. I'm going to start selling for "Energy Wise Solutions" anyone buying?

--

The Coors pure rocky mountain stream "North Clear Creek"