Tim take a look at this site, it maybe what you are looking for.
http://www.firstdaycottage.com/Main.html
Sparky

I'm afraid your "2 good 2 be true" thread got badly derailed by some members talking about highly technical stuff, and it got moved to the member's section.

If you haven't seen this site: http://home.mindspring.com/~kahle11/log.html (click on the step-by-step linkie, look at that one together. It was pivotal in our decision to go ahead and take the course and do BnP.

If like me, you have back trouble, or are afraid you won't have the strength and endurance to swing a sledge all day, there is another option. A juicy tidbit they usually wait to show you in the class is Vern Street's demonstration of driving rebar with a demo hammer. Here's a demonstration on You-Tube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=08lKntnQa1o This was another clincher for us that we (including me with my not-so-great back) definitely COULD do this.

Another thing that clinched it for us was seeing some videos like this one: http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z289/Shark13_/?action=view&current=MVI_1093.flv While the class teaches you how to use the old-school lifting poles like the first site I linked above, you can also rent a telescoping forklift (they aren't cheap, but for us it will be WELL worth it).

I'm taking a bit of a risk here that the mods won't like that I leaked some of the trade secrets they show you in the course. But for Donna and I, our decision went something like this:

We saw the first website (among other stuff here), and thought, "Well, MAYBE we can do this..." We decided to spend the money and take the class, but were still not convinced we really COULD do it. When we got to the class, these two things I mentioned were a HUGE part of convincing us that we could indeed do this ourselves. So, I'm going to go ahead and post this, and hope Mr. E and Steve don't mind. Why?

Because it seems to me that you are looking at spending as much or more money, working just as hard, and simply not having near as cool a home when you are done. It's just my opinion, of course. But I also wanted you to know that you are definitely not alone in your doubts. And you are definitely not alone in having a spouse who has misgivings. It took us actually going to the class to be fully convinced. So hopefully you might be convinced to do the same. I'm sure glad we did.

I re-read your post Tim, and forgot part of what you asked.

Depending on your climate (where I live, it's heating season 7 months of the year) for between the walls (posts) you could just conventionally frame (to hold insulation and the windows and electrical boxes) since the posts hold the roof up, there is no need to provide much structure. Outside (like I did for the barn) you could board and baten it for siding (1x8 rough lumber boards with 1x3 batens gives a traditional look, but whatever floats your boat). Insulation can be either cheap or expensive, but it's not a place to skimp. On the inside, you can use all kinds of different treatments as well, and leave the beams exposed for the "Tim" ber Frame look.

Also worth mentioning, when I built the barn, I actually put the siding up first (I know that sounds weird) but how I did that was to install the bottom plate (to have a place to nail too) then put up the vertical siding. After that I came back and sistered in the 2x4 framing to the top and bottom and cut out the windows. That way we were weathertight in 2 days instead of 2 weeks which was great as Oct turned to Nov.

Jason.

Yeah, I'm just bustin on ya, hehe. I totally understand about appearances. Donna and I will probably stain our logs because she will want them to stay pretty. It means a little more work and expense, but if it make her happy? /shrug

The problem with any design that has wood against wood (especially flat against flat) is that capillary action draws moisture into the cracks and promotes rot. So to combat that, most folks seal the exterior somehow, thinking it will keep the moisture out. Water has a way of getting into just about anywhere, unfortunately. Just look at how it busts up whole mountains by seeping into the cracks in the rock and freezing there. So what ends up happening is the water gets in anyway, and gets sealed IN, making the potential rot problem even worse.

The one thing you should definitely do, no matter what kind of log construction you choose is have really large roof overhangs (wrap-around porches FTW!). That way the logs don't even get wet unless the rain is coming in sideways (which will happen from time to time, hehe.) But this is the single greatest thing you can do for the longevity of your log home.

EDIT: Here's a picture of a butt and pass log home built by member "Pinecone Pam" with nicely stained logs, and pretty synthetic chinking (more expensive than mortar, but much prettier). Keep coming back to the forums, because I think Ellsworth went out to shoot some pics of her place to be featured here on the site.

A lot of those really old places were built with old growth timber, which is WAY more dense and durable than the stuff around today. That's at least part of the explanation.

The problem with any chinkless system is shrinkage / warpage. To really do chinkless right, the wood has to be 100% seasoned (dried). No one waits around for that, unfortunately. They attempt to artificially season them by kiln-drying and such. But it's definitely not the same. So they have to be designed with shrinkage in mind. Drafts often develop between the timbers as well as the timbers shrink and warp. Butt and Pass homes simply don't have those issues, making it much simpler for your every-day DIYer.

You are right about this place though. We really do have a one-string banjo around here. The dedication of some members to BnP bordes on cultishness, hehe. It is indeed a shame if/when someone replies to someone with less courtesy and respect than they should.

Have you visited LHOTI? http://www.lhoti.com/ They are kind of dominated by kit-building info, but you will definitely find useful info there about issues related to other log home styles.

Thanks for the info on the old growth trees. I suspect that might have been rattling around in my head at one point...but probably fell out. No doubt the trees were bigger back then. I've seen some barns made of giant cedar logs that were 40'+. The region where I live used to be one of the all time great White Pine forests. Sadly, except for a few preserves, all are gone. Many to the lumber trade.. many just cut down to make room for agriculture. Too bad someone didn't think back then to manage things a little differently.

LHOTI? Never been there (ok, now I have) but I abandoned the kit idea long ago, for the reasons mentioned on this site and more. IF it came down to ever doing something remotely kit like (I'm thinking quick guest cabin or garden shed) I'd run the logs thru my mill and be done with it that way.

personally I think the guy is going to the extreme--but hats off to him!
that's what I call "makes the world go round-"-if everyone were the same=boring
yea I hope he shows up with some more pictures of his kool place-I like it.

Ron

Thanks everyone for your replies. Alot of good info........ the "tiberframes for the rest of us" seems like the book I need to read. Really interesting to check out what the small cottage/country house folks talk about. Alot of the principles are the same as with the folks here. Trying to live debt free, doing work yourself, not trying to keep up with the jones.

Thanks

Wherever you go, there you are.
Tim

Just an option for you:

NOT a b&p. This is done the very old fashioned way- full logs flatten by a broadaxe on the interior and exterior joined with dovetail notches. The largest logs are 48' long and 32" on the face so you would need some kajones to build this type of home and it would take a bit of learning to do the dovetail notches yourself ~or~ do like I'm doing and pay someone to fit the logs and then do the rest of the work yourself. Again, not at all a b&p just one other option that isn't nearly as inexpensive as b&p but a whole lot better than wood shaped on a mill to look like a 'log' and sold in a 'kit'.

~Susan
"Right here and now...we are in the fluid present, where clear-sightedness never guarantees perfect vision"~Black House

Not sure where you got that picture...it's kinda hard to tell...it's awful small, but it looks like those logs are only about 2" thick. Like siding.

I've acutally seen something like that done before. On an extension built on a old hewn log house (there are lots of these little gems around where I live), the owner stick framed an addition, then nailed wide, flat sawn boards with the wavy edge still on, then chinked in between. Unless you walked right up the the house, or saw it being built, you'd never know.

Oh, and the dovetailed method isn't that big a deal, there are even jigs on the market you can buy if you want to make the work trivial (or make your own).

Jason.

Logs that is. They look splined together? Do you have any bigger pictures?

Hate to know the cost though. Not that you can put a cost on craftmanship.

I bought a bundle once (internet sale) that included "Living Homes" (recommended by LHBA) "The Classic Hewn-Log House: A Step-by-Step Guide to Building and Restoring" and the one you mentioned. I liked them all, but admired the determination and dedication that the author of "How to Build Your Own Log Home for Less than $15,000" showed, that when faced with adversity, you can do something about it; ie: their home was destroyed, the hurricane/tornado (I forget which) blew all these trees (along with our house) down and my family needs a home, so lets build one out of logs, since that's what we got. I don't think I would have went to the trouble of milling all those logs (with only a freakin' chainsaw no less, not even an Alaskan Mill attachment), and instead build B&P, but still, good classic life lesson, when life hands you lemons (or logs) make something beautiful.

Jason.

8" isn't really very big. If the logs had been left round, they would have been an average of 18"-24". But I have my heart set on a hewn dovetail log home like the old ones they have here where I live. I thought it might be an option for NH since his wife didn't like round logs.

Our pictures are here:

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/rickabuddy/?start=0

edited : Ooops, I see it isn't NH's wife who doesn't like round logs......if I understand correctly she doesn't like logs at all. (sorry)

Once again, thanks for the comments above.

There are alot of options out there with alternative home design and I appreciate everyone's help. I have gotten alot of good tips going back on some old threads here---timber framing, pole barns. I think the problem is I like too many different types of homes......they each have their own niche (?spelling). One thing that has been consistent has been how much I love T&G ceilings and second floors. You just can't beat it. I am going to avoid buying a costly "pre-cut kit" from a timber frame company. I love the look but hate the price. It seems like if I can find the timbers myself or mill them myself, use metal brackets for bracing (which I think looks great and kinda of a modern flare) that would save me money. I would utalize a pole barn style which would cut down on long expanses and cost (and ease with construction) ---plus it has a special barn look to it. The books I want to get in moving forward from here are Low cost pole building construction by ralph wolf, practical pole building construction by leigh seddon, and the timber frame book mentioned above. Has anyone else come across books about pole barns or timberframe construction that they would recommend. Once again, I appreciate your hospitality for someone that is looking for advice that is not directly in line how you have/ will build your homes.