Homeschooling?

Topic locked due to getting off topic and things getting just a bit too heated/personal.

With the US war-machine is full swing, I am not so sure I can agree that the US is envied by other countries. ( they do like the "free-rides" and "anchor baby" programs though). I know many people in other countries who despise us, especially our government. (Ask Skip Ellsworth how he is treated in other countries when they see him wearing his USA flag-pin on his lapel.)

If one does some reading you can find out the USA is crippled...millions without health insurance and the numbers keep increasing, we are over-run with some of the highest numbers of violence, crime and drugs, our jails are bursting at the seams, we have some of the highest numbers for people with depression, we have the higest number of people on pyschotropic drugs (Prozac, Zoloft, Ritalin, etc), we lead the world in the number of cases of colon cancer, the american dollar is worth about 3 cents ( and no gold to back it) and our federal debt is out of control and ready to crash...not to mention the millions of homeless people and families.

fact:The World Health Organiztion rated the US 28th in overall health statistics (birth deaths, cancers etc). AND to top it off, the US spends THE MOST money (in the world) on healthcare yet it ranks 28th? With all of our modern vaccines, new chemo-drugs, medications and high-ranked specialists, our country is sick, everyway you look at it. Something is very wrong with this picture.

Out here where I live we are seeing a steady decrease in school enrollment. Why?
We live in a "matrix" that was created by designed plan. Academia is a large part of it.

Kola

No one has spoken up opposing home school. Also, I don't think anyone is completely satisfied with our public school system. So why are tensions high? Because Carolyn has denigrated everyone who has been a public school pupil or whose children currently attend. Perhaps that is not your intention, but it certainly is the reality. The evidence is found in these statements:

…but then neither do I understand why anyone would turn his children over to the state to raise.

It is a point of historical fact that the idea for American institutionalized schooling was copied from the Prussian model of "education" which very effectively produced a population of drones who could not think independently.

…Those who believe this job belongs to the parents, will not put their kids into school.

And the big daddy of them all: Any way you look at it, chucking your kids into school (or daycare) is abandonment.

My parents could have taught me writing, reading, and arithmetic. But they realized they were not best suited to teach me algebra, geometry, biology, chemistry, physics, literature, accounting, how to play the trumpet, or how to shoot a jump shot. My father concentrated on teaching me to have honor, integrity, morality, strong work ethic, and also his profession as an electrician. My mom taught me to be kind, compassionate, and forgiving, as well as all the household/domestic skills (thank God, as the future Mrs. Freddy is tardy getting here). In other words, my parents taught me life skills and my school taught me specialized subjects to help round me out and which just may give me an advantage over the less fortunate billions of kids around the globe.

School officials and teachers in my community were not strangers, nor were they agents of a government hoping to keep me down as an unthinking drone capable only of satisfying the wants of greedy and evil captains of industry. Rather, some were friends or neighbors, and were raising their own children as well. They were well-trained in their chosen subjects, and concentrated on imparting that knowledge to me.

Carolyn, your beliefs cannot explain away the millions of American engineers, police, dentists, farmers, business people, lawyers, soldiers, scientists, plumbers, etc, that got their start in public education, and now form the backbone of the most envied society on earth. More than a few of us managed to escape the evil plan, I suppose.

Now let us suppose there is no government supported education. A large majority will not teach their children scholastic subjects. The uneducated mass will work for the educated few, furthering the concentration of wealth, and leading to the decline (or disappearance) of the middle class. Without a strong middle class, no one will fight the wars which keep our enemies at bay, and ensure our rights to speak freely in this or any other forum.

In too many words, I tried to state that a government-sponsored education is better than no education at all. Undoubtably there are many schools where I would not send my children. In that case I would home-school my children until I was no longer capable, or I would move to a community that met my family’s educational needs.

freddy

Are kids missing out regarding "socialization" from a school atmosphere?

How many school kids are abused verbally,physically, sexually etc?

How about overweight Johnny getting slapped around on a daily basis, school bullies running rampant, disrespectful punks calling girls foul names, drugs in the classroom and outside, and smoking and boozing, how about all these teachers having sex with students. All these are magnified in our present-day school systems. Depending where one lives, there are enough kids to socialize other than a school system.

AND, many parents need to start being parents. BUT, if they didn't have parental guidance when they were kids how can they teach it to their kids?

rambling on and 2 more cents...

Kola

I think this is one of those discussions similar to politics and religion. Everyone has their views and hold firm to their beliefs. It is easy to create a brew-hah.

Personally, I do like public or private schooling and support and promote homeschooling 100%. Here in Colorado it is growing fast as people are tired of the current system and moms ( and some dads) are choosing to stay at home.

Heres is my list of problems with schooling:

- horrible lunch programs ( chemical additives and "non-food)
-pop machines and crap snack machines which are contracted into the school programs.
- the loss of CREATIVITY (and expression of such) of an individual.
- not enough (if any) "hands on" programs ( carpentry, mechanics, welding etc)
- over-emphasis on sports and parents who push their kids into it.
-the classes taught are not always truthful ( lies about Native Americans, Columbus etc)..and lack of emphasis on our Constitution.
- poor handling of religous matters.
-medical intervention from a "school nurse" (over-drugging kids)
- FORCED VACCINATIONS! .. although many states have exemptions status, it is still a nighmare to deal with. Many parents choose to homeschool just for this reason, as the school officials AND teachers are biased against kids who are non-vaccinated.

I think it should be a parents choice on how they choose to raise their kids not state or federal laws. But more importantly people should respect others of the choices they have made. Isn't that what this Republic was founded on?

I do not have kids. If I did they would be homeschooled. As a kid, I was bored with school except for sports. Thank God I had a few mentors (a few art teachers and a woodshop teacher) who saw I had talent elsewhere.
Kids need mentors, people they can trust, look up to and believe in. Who best but for those mentors to be parents, relatives or friends.

This is no way disrespectful of teachers and parents. Many of them are out there doing the best they can with what they have. It is the system that is at fault.

I believe this country needs to take a few steps back and keep Mom (or Dad, or BOTH) at home and create those old fashion values. Getting out of debt (staying there), building your own home and becoming self sufficient opens that door.

Kola

Actually Steve I didn't see jruz response as an attack either and saw some of the more absolute statements made by other members as demeaning to others.

Carolyn, although I agree with you on many points and appreciate the attempt at educating other to homeschooling a different approach (I could use more myself as well) to how you present the information might be helpful in the future.

Just reflect about your first post in this thread:

Lets say I had started with something like

I'm not trying to attack you but just putting the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

Anyway, this thread should probably be closed/locked because we've over stepped the intent of the original thread IMHO.

Good day all.

I'm sorry if I appeared to be attacking Carolyn.

Honestly I was trying to impart an understanding that there are shades of grey in this matter. Being one of the people who has chosen public schooling, Ifelt attacked. I was hoping to convey that by speaking matter-of-factly and assuming everything false thing you read is true, you open yourself up for the same treatment.

Again, I appologize - I'm now unsubscribing from this thread.

Jim

Hi Jim----Actually I think you missed the point I was trying to make, and I apologize for my miscommunication. What I meant to say is that when a child goes to school, the school decides what time he must get on the bus, what time he may go home, when he may eat (maybe even what he will eat), what he may wear, when he may and may not go to the bathroom, what shots he must have, what books he will read, what page he must turn to, who will share his classroom or bus or cafeteria, when he is free for family vacations, etc. and when he is not free, what subjects will be taught, which religion will be peddled (education is never 'neutral'), who the instructors will be….and I mean precious little is left up to the child or parents.

Yet your criticism is that home schooled kids depend too much on their parents to make decisions???

It is a point of historical fact that the idea for American institutionalized schooling was copied from the Prussian model of "education" which very effectively produced a population of drones who could not think independently. The fathers of U.S. compulsory schooling saw great advantage in raising up a populace that could be controlled. Initially—back when Americans understood the concept of freedom--forced schooling met with significant resistance, and some children even had to be escorted to school at gunpoint.

Thanks to the sweeping success of tax-funded institutionalized schooling, we now have a country full of parents who are unwilling and/or unable to educate their own children and who depend on the gov’t to make the most important decisions regarding their families. The original mission to remove children from the undesirable influence of their parents has been accomplished.

Home school is not meant to be school at home. Home education is a way of life whereby the family--not the government (or other strangers)--designs the family’s schedule and makes the important decisions regarding the children’s education, training, and upbringing based on the uniqueness of the family and the child. I can appreciate that this might be a difficult concept for non-homeschoolers to grasp, but then neither do I understand why anyone would turn his children over to the state to raise. I’m pretty sure that the government should not know or care more about our children than we parents do, and that we should not trust the gov’t to direct our children’s lives more than we trust ourselves.

The topic here is ‘homesteading and self-sufficiency.’ Public schooling is the antithesis of self-sufficiency as well as, dare I say, a primary assassin of home and family life. I see the home education movement as a long overdue correction of what has been gravely amiss in America.

In the event that I have once again failed to adequately present this particular flaw of institutionalized school, see: http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=878 or http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39dc781b73bc.htm where you can get a whole assortment of comments on the many downsides of public schooling.

----Carolyn

"Do you think nobody would willingly entrust his children to you [gov’t schools] or pay you for teaching them? Why do you have to extort your fees and collect your pupils by compulsion?" Isabel Paterson

Carolyn,

We homeschool our kids. Thanks for summing things up so well. I always wonder at people who can't understand parents who want to "over protect" their kids. Maybe if people "over protected" a little more, we would have healthier families.

My kids would survive just fine in a public school environment. They would ace all the standardized testing. But they do even better at home.

Jim,

Whoa, that was out of line. Please refer to items 4, 13, and 18 in our Terms of Service before posting again.

-Steve

Carolyn,
What you're basically telling us is that your kids would not survive public schooling because they depend far too much on their parents to make decisions for them, correct? And this is not 'over protection' in what aspect...?

I agree there is a place for home-schooling and in some situations it works better than public schools. However, if you honestly think all public schools and governmental bodies are "out to get you" it is exactly the kind of thing that makes me cringe and gives home-schooling a bad rep. You'd do well to rethink these broad generalizations, they do nothing for the point you're trying to make.

Jim

Carolyn,

I think you sum it up best.

I totally agree.

txn, you miss my point, as you are doing precisely what I advocate--educating yourself for the benefit of your child.

Excellent points have been raised. Parents ought to take their responsibilities seriously.

Who should rightfully plan your children's schedules and decide where and how they will spend their childhood? Who should choose your children's companions? Whose job is it to decide what your children should learn...and according to which world view? Who really should call the shots where children are concerned?

Those who believe this job belongs to the parents, will not put their kids into school. Let us not confuse parental leadership and responsible guidance with 'over protection.'

On the other hand, parents who relinquish their kids to the compulsory schooling system abdicate a boatload of parental authority. Also, by example they are telling their children that it is, in fact, perfectly fine to hand over that control to strangers, and even to the government! "And kids, when you become parents, not only can you get by without directing your kids' time and training, but if you want to dump the job onto others but don't want to pay them for it, you can stick the taxpayers with the bill! Pretty slick, hey?"

It's a heck of a message to send to your children.

adubar, I appreciate your response and understand the general message of your reply however I'd disagree.

If you're attempting to build the entire curriculum yourself without any assistance from many of the homeschool organizations out there I'd agree however we purchase 'turn-key' programs and learn with our children. General life experience allows us to pick it up quicker and assist with misunderstanding of general concepts. For example we didn't know Latin but bought a program and have been working with the children on it...should we have not done Latin since we never took it?

In my career, I.T., I work with people with advanced degrees and most, if not all, of my fellow consultants have significantly more education (I only have a semester of college and had average high school grades) however aside from some areas where I need to spend more time learning to keep up they don't bring much to the table I can't without some study.

On the abandonment issue I'd say in a perfect world we could discuss this however having this conversation with a single parent who has had life slap them in the face, husband left, no child support, etc. and that type of response only serves to frustrate and alienate that person. They absolutely need to be a part of their children's education lives however in some cases it is just not realistic to say that. My wife and I consider homeschooling one of our most important tasks and structure out life to fit within parameters that support that however what works for us does not work for others. I know homeschool families who realized they were not teaching their children and finally put them in school but made sure they were a big part of that process. Their children's grades as well as general attitude increase with assistance from the public sector and I have the utmost of respect in their making that decision.

freddy does bring up a good point about over-protection of children and this is something that takes a lot of planning to prevent. Our opinion was that we introduce our children to the world on our terms, not the world's terms.

Freddy,
I don't think your argument necessarily follows.

You assume that one can equate leaving a child at school with leaving them for a one hour jaunt. I don't believe most parents would. Logically, it cannot follow--think about your hidden premises for that argument to be true. It would form a tautology.

To many parents, leaving a child to fend for themselves in an indifferent, and ultimately bad institution is a form of abandonment. The "abandonment" is not one of a physical and emotional nature for the child but one of duty to the child by the parent. The parent abandons their duty to the child.

"Socialization" is a buzzword that gets far too much airplay.

A child that is out in the world, will be socialized regardless. It is the parents that must give meaning and direction to social values.
Were we see children run amiss in the world is when the parents are not teaching the child right from wrong, and do not instill empathy for others (the parent must believe in these and exhibit them as well--live by example).

I would venture to guess that the same "home schooled children" that you seem to have a fear of are raised in families much like those that produce the shooters in public schools.

One thing I will add is that I believe it is the sad case that most American parents are not qualified to home school. Mostly, because the vast majority are products of public education or marginal education at best.

How can a parent that blew-off algebra in highschool, let alone college teach their child maths?

How can a parent that can barely speak with correct grammar, let alone diagram a sentence, teach their child English?

How can a parent that never reads books expect to instill reading in a child?

Another tragedy is that a good number of educators with their precious teaching certificates are wholly unsuited for teaching, simply for the fact that many of the institutions handing these pieces of paper out are themselves holding to the status quo.

I say, parents, do your job!!!!!

By the way Freddy, do you have children?

-A

My point is this: If you believe sending your child to school is abandonment, then you must also believe letting the child go anywhere for an extended period (> 1 hour) without the family is also abandonment. The result is an unsocialized or under-socialized child, with limited ability to cope in the modern world. In my view, that is a dangerous child. On the other hand, we have had a few tragic incidents in recent years in which children have been murdered while attending public school.

So the question becomes: Would you rather take your chances of surviving public school or living next door to unsocialized children? You know my answer.

I believe that home school is the proper choice for some families. My impression is that most home schoolers do not believe the abandonment hogwash, and that they strive to properly socialize their children. Is that impression right or wrong?

This is my last word on the subject.

freddy

Freddy, could you expand upon your declaration?

How is sheltering more dangerous than a public education?

-A

The abandonment argument is absurd. Some children feel separation anxiety, which is cured in short order when they realize everything will be just fine (exceptions acknowledged).

This is an example of sheltering, which is more dangerous than a public education.

freddy

I'll just say that I disagree strongly with this statement and I'll leave it at that. Arguing over it would likely get us nowhere. ;)

Anyway, cheers to you - and I'm glad homeschooling has worked well for your family! :)

Good for you Carolyn!!!!!! :D I am wishing my daughter never went to public school. Homeschooling - done right - is the best education for kids.

We have five children ages 24 down to 10. None have ever been to school, and we will never send them. The advantages of home education are myriad, not only for the children, but for the parents as well. The disadvantages of institutionalized schooling are likewise myriad.

Any way you look at it, chucking your kids into school (or daycare) is abandonment. Parental abandonment is a pretty serious hit for any child to deal with. But don't get me started........

the problem with these types of ideologies is when it is applied to public education, which is structured to be constantly and resource-wise at odds with them.

What you usally see is special ed courses with only marginal gains for a few specifically identified/labeled students. We also see "charter schools," which may just turn out to be the same problems only accounted for differently--which may end up being a type of social selection for priveledge in the long term.

Private and home schooling is a different matter.

The main problem in those institutions is to guard against reactionary "non strucuture."

There is a time and a place for overt structure and a time and a place for individual (or as pop-psyc likes to say, "self-directed') organization. The craft of teaching comes in seeing that the two may intertwine at times.

In the end, education and learning should, at the basis, allow a person to learn self-discipline. Without it, one can never learn to teach oneself effectively, let alone others, and will always be reliant on the structure or the "non-structure structure" (sic) that is imposed upon them.

Ask yourserlf, how many curriculums in private, public and homeschooling programs have self-discipline as the basis?

Self-discipline requires structure.

-A

I found this :

KUSA - In a world that revolves around structure, more parents nationwide are letting their kids learn without structure, and they say it is working.

“We found out that it was more helpful for him to learn if he got to pick and choose what he wanted to learn,” said Kawai Brown.

Brown prefers the term child-led learning. She homeschooled her sons in the method, which allows them to decide what to learn and when.

“It’s basically, do whatever you want for school,” said 9-year-old Dustin Brown. “You can do math. You can do science. You can do anything. You can read another book.”

Dustin typically spends most of his morning outside. During the snowstorms, he spent his days building a makeshift hill in his front yard to snowboard and sled on. Then, he would spend time breaking up the ice on his sidewalk before finally deciding to sit down and do some work.

“I don’t really like being told what to do,” Dustin said. “So, it’s a lot easier if I can choose what I can do.”

Dustin likes to pick and choose between the common subjects of science, math, and history. He spends a lot of time learning about Egypt and reading books about warriors. His mother says freedom to choose is what child-led learning is about, and that includes allowing Dustin to build a snow hill to sled down in the front yard.

“Child-led learning to me is that we give our children the opportunity to learn,” Kawai said.

She believes time constraints and structure could hinder a child’s education.

“When you’re interested in something and it takes longer than say an hour, a lot of children don’t want to be interrupted,” she said.

“I think it’s nice that I actually get to decide and not have someone hand me the work and just say, ‘Do it,’” said Dustin.

However, parents practicing the unschooling method represent only about 10 percent of all homeschoolers. An estimated 2 million families homeschool nationwide. More common is a structured approach, like what Terri Moore does with her daughter Emelia.

“I just know when I came down to it, that I needed something that was laid out for me that I could follow,” said Terri.

She follows a curriculum put out by a school in Baltimore, Maryland specifically for homeschooled families.

“If I didn’t have things planned out on a daily basis, I don’t think things would actually get done,” said Terri.

That is what makes Terri wonder about child-led learning. She says she is not against that method, but she said she can’t see it making sense for her family.

“The kids run the parents and to me that’s just unacceptable,” Terri said. “When the mom says to Johnny, ‘What do you want to learn today?’ and Johnny says, ‘Nothing,’ you know, okay, so what happens today?”

“We don’t let them just take control of everything, because if we did then our lives would be chaos, too.” said Kawai.

She says academics is the only part of the family life in which she lets her kids have a say.

Emelia Moore says child-led learning is not something she would want to do.

“If I could pick, that wouldn’t really be that fun,” she said.

Terri says her curriculum guarantees her daughter’s learning is well-rounded.

“There needs to be a base,” Terri said. “There has to be something to go from.”

Kawai says she does not worry if Dustin learns enough each day.

“Overall is our main goal, because even if they learn day-to-day, a lot of children forget,” she said.

Kawai says all she knows is that her son reads a lot more if it is something he chose and is interested in.

“When we allow him to choose what he likes to do, he remembers a lot more,” she said.

As far as structure goes, Kawai says Dustin will learn all that in the process.

“They learn naturally about schedules and how to get things done on time,” she said.

The State of Colorado has lenient laws when it comes to homeschooled families. Basically, the government views them as small private schools so they are not regulated, making unschooling or child-led learning legal.

“When you put it into everyday application and you notice that they are succeeding, that’s our main goal,” Kawai said, “for them to succeed in life, not just in school.”

The National Home Education Research Institute, a non-profit research group, recently completed a comprehensive study of how former homeschoolers are faring in their adult lives. Of the 7,306 participants, 5,254 had been homeschooled for at least seven years.

Some findings:

• 74.2 percent had attained some college courses or higher in their education. In the general U.S. population in the same age range, the number is 46.2 percent.

• 71 percent of the former homeschoolers are participating in an ongoing community activity, compared to 39 percent of all U.S. adults.

• 55 percent say they would homeschool their own children.

http://www.9news.com/news/education/article.aspx?storyid=65546&GID=MdLOtzSvFLBizuUih4qM0K3NVF37PGisZ4ytTjX9gNQ%3D

Well said. I'd like to add that the trouble with public school lies with parents who are not taking an active role in their children's education. There's an increasing trend of looking it as a "daycare" for their kids, and thinking that the teachers will do all the work. The teachers have extremely limited time with the kids. When the kids start first grade in public school - who's going to have more influence: a teacher they've known a few weeks or a parent they've known 6 years?

Being a "recent" product of public schooling in both Connecticut and Washington I'd say that it's not easy but it is doable. My parents were very involved and kept a close watch over me and my school work. This is really what is lacking in this day in age...and the accountability shifts like so many recent lawsuits (let's not get started on that topic :wink: ).

I applaud all of you successful homeschoolers. It's not an easy thing to do. My mother-in-law teaches at a public school "extension" that works with home schooled kids, and she loves it.

I'd like to add the I cringe at the thought of homeschooling being used to "shelter" kids from "the world". I realize it a choice of the parents but I personally feel its not fair and they'll come to a point in their lives when the sheltering ceases - and what then? It takes a good leader (aka parent) to help them get their start the world. It can be done, and it is done all the time. I would not rule out public schooling just because of a horror story or two.

Jim

Dave,

I think that is a common problem in many schools across the nation; especially, public.

If you think about it, public education really provides a service that is not aimed at educating.
It offers the means for student to become what are meant to be workers and consumers--and these days "CONSUMER" is more valuable than "WORKER or PRODUCER," as we can farm that out oversees. All that other "ed-ju-ma-ca-tion" stuff just gets in the way of those aims.

Of course, some will argue that one must be 'educated' to earn the income to spend as a consumer. But, if you look at the credit and financing trends since a certain Calif. Gov. was President that is not true.

As an example, consumers can be on public assistance, and many currently are. Many are extended credit they do not deserve and cannot afford. Others are given zero down loans--all in an attempt to power the consumer engine. Even "under educated" persons get on quite well in the job market. We have accountants working today, that can't add. Engineers that can't do any "engineering" other than make coffee for the boys and girls in the office & etc.

If we look at the public education mess from that vantage point, it certainly appears to be doing a spectacular job. It really does not need to concentrate on education but certainly must foster a social climate that promotes the end desired product "the consumer."
After all, the best consumer for the seller is an "ignorant one." Also, consumerism is directly proportional to self-centerdness and narcisism--which are precisely the qualities you see in students who are disrespectful and disrutptive.

We may have seen public education usurped by people like Carnegie and Ford to produce the masses of workers for their factories in the turn of the 19th century only to see it really evolve into producing the consumers for those same endeavors in the turn of the 20th.

-Andrew

I just got home from substitute teaching. Its what I do in Hawaii while its cold in Washington.
The kids at school today got to me at lunch time. This group of about 10 kid started by calling another a slu##, she was talking about what she would do, F this, and suck that... and on and on. This group is so over sexualized, I just lost it and moved them away from the outside of my class room. They are extreme, but in general the girls dress so to expose the maximum of flesh, even the young teachers wear skirts so high I can't believe it. The general attitude is if you have it, flaunt it. I could go on and on...

In my opinion, our school system (in Hawaii) is a failure. I would encourage all that can - to home school or send their kids to private school. Note; it has been reported in the local papers that over 50% of Hawaiian teachers send their kids to private school. Its not just drugs, or the sexuality, or the lack of discipline, but its the attitude that the kids are in charge and can't be touched.
Dave

You've probably seen this guy in some infomercials, but I've seen the course he offers and was pretty impressed. There was not much to it. If I had to teach kids math I think this is how I would go about doing it.

http://www.humancalculator.com/index.htm

I just saw this thread and have to post a response. We'll be homeschooling! I'm a stay-at-home mom right now; kids are almost 4 and 2.5 with another on the way.

I definately agree about "Underground History" and thanks to Steve and Ellsworth for telling us about it after our class! Don't attempt to print it off though, just buy it. I know this from experience. :shock:

To add to that, I'd suggest reading more of a homeschool -how to and -reasoning behind book called "A Thomas Jefferson Education" by Oliver De'Mille that you can order at the http://www.gwc.edu/ bookstore. We will be following this method as we homeschool our children. It is somewhere between a classical trivium education and unschooling (integrating the two)...graduating more as it goes with a major emphasis on self-motivation, moral learning, and very much based on the educations of our founding fathers.

For me, "unschooling" was simply being a parent (or child) and too unstructured. I loved the idea of being self-directed in learning, though. But at the same time, a full-on classical education like in "A Well-Trained Mind" was more pushy than I wanted with drilling, flash cards, etc. Though, I loved the reading it required. We also do not believe in the public school at home method with prepared lessons and texts either. Given all that, Thomas Jefferson Education was a God-send to us as it is exactly what we need based on our values and morals. We want our children truly educated with plenty of practical experience. In fact, if our plans for log homes and financial independence work out, we'll likely move for our children to attend George Wythe College in-person durring their teen years. I've strongly considered their distance courses off and on and we even have friends that moved there simply to attend the school. I'm envious of them!

We too want to do some "travel-schooling" like Reb mentioned. Perhaps not for months at a time, but there is nothing like reading and studying about Gettysburg and then actually visiting it and taking it in...same goes with the study of countries, opera, modes of transportation, etc. For us, it'll be Chile --Britton lived in Chile for 2 years.

Paul,

I think my wife and I look at home schooling as insurance against what we've encountered in institutional learning.

I can't imagine waiting to get involved in home schooling until AFTER we've run into some bad situations with the traditional institutions. Better it to already be part of what we normally do as a family if and when we decide to break our ties with learning institutions.

My own experience growing up showed me that paralleling traditional learning with a home school plan can create the needed bridge when moving from city to city and country to country. It is probably why I was three years ahead of my pears when I moved back to the U.S.

-Andrew

Adubar,

We are in the same situation as you. In the neighboring county over, we have the kids in private schools and are shifting towards homeschool. At first we were feeling a little intimidated, but have met enough people who are doing it and giving us encouragement.

Paul

Our children attend a private school; however we do maintain a home curriculum that is separate and complimentary. We will probably up the anti on home school curriculum and involvement with the school (several days a week as volunteers) if they end up attending a public school.

Moving to solely home schooling them has always been in the back of our minds. Particularly as they grow older and need to change schools.

The main problem we are seeing is the prevailing "Politically Correct" mentality that seems to be running public schools and a majority of private/alternative schools, particularly as it pertains to raising boys. They definitely do not appear to be raising men.

We've also found similar issues with the home school co-ops in our area.

-A

First post on this forum, good evening all.

We have 4 children (12, 10, 5, 3) who have always been homeschooled. My wife and I were both public school only kids but we felt a strong desire to homeschool (ok it was primarily mine in the beginning but now she says she's glad I was stubborn but caring about it).

To address a few points related to homeschool that have been discussed or touched on.
- Look for a homeschool co-op in your area, there is plenty of socialization (which seems to be one of the biggest concerns we had with our parents)
- If you're in a smaller town I would encourage you to get your children involved in extra activities (martial arts, gymnastics, etc)
- Know your limits. For example my wife isn't big on planning and organization so we buy 'turn key' programs.
- Don't skimp on education, find and buy the best programs you can until you really get familiar with what you're doing
- Prepare for possible problems with family. My step-mom (of 30+ years) is a public school teacher, she was respectful but didn't support our decision for many years.
- Enjoy the process. There are up and down days like any family situation but it is so awesome to be with our kids. I'm in the other room (I work from home) and they're excited to come right in when they get an A. When my wife or the kid(s) are struggling with something I get an opportunity to jump in and teach...how cool is that?

and since this is a family forum I'll keep it light....I get to be intimate with my kids school teacher...'nough said.

I don't know where you went to school, but I went to a small public school in rural Iowa. there were downsides to going to a small school (e.g. no advanced coursework), but the upsides were the best of both worlds--I had a social life, but the kids were't drug dealers. I also saw my share of compliments, being in the Talented and Gifted program... one time I made gunpowder and brought it to school... of course I got busted. my TAG coordinator got me off with a day of in-school suspension. I spent the whole day talking with the pricipal (an ex-navy seal) about doing covert ops in Vietnam/Cambodia. I hate to think what would happen to me today.

This being said, I would like to send my kids to school (maybe a private school), but if they are held back (as I was), I will pull them in a heartbeat.

yep, been homeschooling for 16 years. With no immediate end in sight. Our youngest just turned 3 our oldest is almost 21.

Yep, we homeschool, too. Just finishing up our second year. We've got an 11 year old daughter and 7 year old son that we started homeschooling in the fall of 2003 and a 4 year old daughter that we started last fall.

We've tried a couple of different methods, but what we've found works best for us is to study whatever the children are interested in at the present time. We have also found joining a co-op beneficial.

I read the Dumbing us down book a few years ago. Very good book. Read a few others that at the moment I can't remember titles of but I'll post a few of them when I do recall.

We just got the Robinson Curriculum. Starting soon as soon as things settle down from the arrival from our newborn.

My wife's former husband is in total agreement with homeschooling our kids. Man, I wish I would have homeschooled my own. In a way, public school was a good experience for them, though. My son graduates this year and is headed for art college in Detroit this fall. The kids in public school clearly illustrated to him what he did NOT want to be: materialistic and ruthless. The drug problem is pretty alarming to boot.

Kevin

We homeschool our 10 year old boy and would have it no other way. Spending time with your kids is such an important thing. Besides, if parents understood what their kids were really learning, public schools would be empty. I recommend it to everyone I know. If I can do this, anyone can. :)

We just received the Dumbing Down book in the mail. My wife dove into it this morning. As soon as she finishes it, I will be reading it too.

Kevin

Our kids were both homeschooled. The oldest is 19 and has
been out of college for a few months. Gives you an idea of
just how well homeschooling works when compared to the
cattle corral mentality.
I was at the local high school several years ago. Spent about
40-50 hours/week working with students. The whole education
mentality is to keep everyone down at a manageable level, and
forbid that you should ever say anything encouraging to a student
who did well! The others may overhear you and feel bad that
they haven't done as well as the student you commended.

I was shocked at just how ignorant and dumbed-down the
students were. Tragic.

I walked into class one day and said to the Parapro; "What is
WRONG with these girls...don't they understand cleavage???"
She said, "Yes Rick, they do!"
Very glad we avoided the whole school scene. One teacher so
rudely said it best. "You (homeschoolers) just want to take the
cream-of-the-crop and leave US with the dregs."

-Rick

We are definitely going to homeschool when we have children. :D

And homeschooling is much, much more fun. We plan to do it, when we have kids. I want to do more of a "travel-schooling", actually. Study history and art and music around the world, see the places where things actually happened, etc. I was homeschooled for a year and it was the best year of my entire education, including college.

Of course, if you're building log homes, one every few years, it's much easier to travel than if you're stuck working a 9-5. The first thing I want to do when we finish our house is either (A) move to Brazil for half a year or (B) spend half a year bumming around Europe and Asia. I'd love to bring a kid with me, but I can't produce/grow them fast enough for the first trip. :)

Anyway. The best thing about homeschooling is giving your children the freedom to learn about anything, and helping them get a broader perspective on the world than they'd get in a classroom. You can also integrate museums and historic sites into your studies, rather than a once-a-year field trip. Why learn about the art of Michaelangelo from a book, when you could travel to Europe and see it yourself?

This is especially relevant if you have a child interested in studying, say, art history in college. Why spend $15,000 a year for four years of book education when you could borrow a pile of art history books from the library and fly to Italy for six months for the same price?

I just think conventional education isn't really designed to push children to excell like homeschooling can be. I spent most of my high school years trying not to fall asleep in class. Come to think of it, my college years, too. ;)

Edited to add: Also, the most worthwhile college experience I had was when I randomly decided to spend one summer in Turkey. It cost less than four weeks of classes at my private college, (under $3K) and I had the most incredible experiences. Besides, the best way to conquer picky eating is to make your kids travel to places where you can't find chicken nuggets. ;)

Steve and Somasoul:

My wife needs a good sell for her to consider homeschooling. Maybe this Gatto book will do the trick. Seems like I'd be killing 2 birds with one stone by home schooling......a better education for the lil' uns and the freedom to move out of the city.

Thanks for the info,

Kevin

Steve likes Gatto! Man, Gatto is awesome. It's hard to argue with someone who has been New York state's school teacher of the year multiple times.

I mentioned this in the Good Books? thread in the general area, but it also applies to this thread so... Here's a really good book on public education:

The Underground History of American Education

You can read the whole thing online for free. I don't have kids yet, but they'll be homeschooled when they arrive. :)

Steve

Have a 5 and 3 year old with another on the way. We're looking seriously into homeschooling.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Whew, you had me fooled there for a minute! I was wondering what kind of a thread I had stumbed on!!

Nope,
I didn't homeschool my children. But looking back, I wish I had.