Sun, 2010-02-14 08:43 — ramrodder
My wife and I are very close (this summer if it
dries out enough here in NE Texas) to having a log-home built. We have chosen the Satterwhite Texan with loft, but will probably have it built by another contractor. Any feedback on the following two subjects will be appreciated:
!. Satterwhite logs
2. The difficult of dealing with insect pests, especially carpenter ants and carpenter bees.
Thanks for any help
Comments
Yes man Satterwhite logs must been hard find in 1800s
Yes i read the history books pioneers had hard time finding Satterwhite log trees to build there homes back then must been real pain in the butt.
So i heard they never build log home back then and had wait till log homes were invented in year 2000.
I think they had wait till the Satterwhite log home kit company were invented till now.
Isent that Lumber that banned for forest in the amazone becuse it cause they're radioactive
emit radon
cause cancer
leach dihydrogen monoxide
Isent Satterwhite a term for broken down old white man that worked all his dam life to pay of some over priced log home kit he just bought that now rotten under his feet.
Handcrafted homes.
Thu, 2010-02-18 19:01
Does anyone have an opinion about the "handcrafted" log home companies, like Maple Island? My husband and I want to build it ourselves and want to attend the class. I'm just curious if your members think the handcrafted industry is just more of the same of the "kit" log home industry.
We have always wanted a log home- each of us did even before we met. Of course, we began admiring the "kit" log homes because that's all we knew. I read enough log home magazines to get confused about the best building techniques. I found your site when I was trying to find out what is butt and pass. From your member postings and articles, I have found out enough to make me appreciate a butt and pass hand crafted log home. After visiting your site for over a year, and then sharing it with my husband, it seemed possible that we could do this ourselves. Depending on when the next one will be, we might be there. Thanks for the articles and the public forums.
CDH
I checked out there site, and they have some beautiful work, but their homes will still settle, and the biggest problem I have with their homes is the price! it took a little digging, but they are currently building turnkey homes in the $250-275 price range...OUCH!!! most members on the high end spend less then $50 a square foot for their homes, with some being as little as $7 a square foot, for the price of where a Hot water tank would sit in their home, (4 sq. ft.) you could take the class, and be WAY ahead...my two cents
rckclmbr428
Fri, 2010-02-19 18:38
You're right about the expense. That's more than we would be able to pay for our floor plan. While I am willing to pay more for good quality, that's too much! I only looked at them because I was intimidated by DIY house building. Last summer my husband had me practice peeling some pine trees he cut on our property and that was a lot of work just for that one step. As far as the settling, I thought that all homes settle because the moisture content of the logs will vary at different times. I guess I could learn more in the class about what to expect of logs and how settling is addressed with butt and pass. Thanks for the advice. Also, your pics are really nice, beautiful craftsmanship. I like that rope detailing around the windows and cabinets. I don't know anything about that but it looks like it is functional for sealing those spaces, too. I'm getting more anxious about what I could learn in that class!
CD_H
Period.
Trust me. Or, take the class and find out why. The reason is in front of your eyes, but you have to use common sense and know a little bit about the nature of logs. I can't tell you in the public forum, but anybody can figure it out using deductive reasoning.
"LHBA log homes don't settle."
Sun, 2010-02-21 20:54
Fossten said,
-"LHBA Log homes don't settle. Period. Trust me. Or, take the class and find out why. The reason is in front of your eyes, but you have to use common sense and know a little bit about the nature of logs. I can't tell you in the public forum, but anybody can figure it out using deductive reasoning."-
You must mean that the logs are fastened together so securely that they can not move so they can't settle even when they shrink. They can't go anywhere. See I have common sense:) Also, I understand that settling happens when the foundation is done incorrectly. I believe you. Thanks for sharing.
CD_H
Well done, CD_H! Of course you cheated by going to Ronnie's house over the weekend...
Just kidding with ya, and I'm of course envious that you got to see his house. I really would like to get up there.
The House
Mon, 2010-02-22 13:46
Just kidding with ya, and I'm of course envious that you got to see his house. I really would like to get up there.
Lol! I didn't mean to cheat, but it was a lucky opportunity! I was able to see what you all describe. I was so cheered up by the experience that I called my mother and my husband and chatted them up about the house before I even got home. I can't wait to get started on mine....
Welcome to the family
CD_H,
I think you might be hooked and landed. Being able to see what we talk about is an awesome eye-opener.
Please ask your husband to be safe and we look forward to him returning safe.
Thanks!
Sun, 2010-03-14 13:57
I think you might be hooked and landed. Being able to see what we talk about is an awesome eye-opener.
Please ask your husband to be safe and we look forward to him returning safe.
Thank you, I will. Yes, everything is on hold while he's deployed and I won't be able to attend the class in Boston because I don't want to do it without him. Still, I'll be able to get the well and septic system put in, so that is progress.
CD_H Thats what I thought....
CD_H
That is exactly what I thought when I first went to Skips House in Monroe, Washington.
"I can't wait to start on mine"..... unfortunately I was in the middle of building a stick (traditional) house in 1999, when I took the class and now I'm on my 3rd tour in Iraq... so things have gone slow, but for me, that's a good thing.
I've been able to think alot about what i want to do and I've sent hundreds of emails asking questions and gathering information and picking things up along the way.
The class is well worth the investment.... even if you sit on it for 10 years like I have.
I have gathered knowledge, tools, house items (a barn full) and am ready to build when I return.
We have bought 10 acres and plan to put up a 35X35 in 2011.
Blessings to you and all,
JRDavis
jrdavis-That's what I thought...
Sun, 2010-03-14 14:10
CD-H
I hear you went to a LHBA-built home's open house over the weekend. can you tell us what you thought and what your impressions were? thanks!
Open House
Mon, 2010-02-22 13:35
Yes, I was lucky to see the house for sale and I thought it was extremely well done. I think he should be proud of his work! I could see that what the members say on the forum is true. Some of the highlights that I noticed were the airtight feel of the home, a very solid house with a metal roof. It was cozy and warm in the main floor and third floor and was only being heated by a fire place. The massive logs were impressive, from the ridgepole to the tall log supports that extended from the basement to the roof. The basement was finished and had a utility room. I had never thought about this: The electrical outlets and light switches can be placed in between the log courses, so I won't have to carve spaces for them in the logs. There were no "jacks" to adjust (the kit models that had those really bothered me), there was no need for space around the doors and windows for settling. We talked about the long roof overhangs to protect the exterior logs, and there are at least five kit built log homes in the area with much shorter overhangs and small diameter milled dowels. Some of the details were nice, such as the doors that the owner built and the log staircase which felt sturdy and secure. There were also railing with poles made from saplings right on the land. Nice touches! The pics don't tell it all.
I would need more square footage, but I now feel even more confident that my husband and I can do this. I was careful not to ask for any class secrets:) but I appreciated what the builder was willing to share and I'm glad I went.
CD_H
Great summary! I too was impressed by the size of the logs the first time I stepped inside Wallace Falls. Glad to hear you're considering our method. You won't regret it. It'll be the best small investment you ever made.
CD-H's highlights
Thanks CD_H for giving us a summary of what you saw. they (LHBA-built homes) are inspiring, aren't they:)
handcrafted
The other building techniques can work just fine. The problem is it takes a MASTER craftsman to CORRECTLY build a saddle-notched, or full-scribed log home. Not only is a master craftsman specialized in log construction hard to find, it's extremely expensive when you do find it.
One of the biggest advantages of butt and pass is that is does NOT require master craftsmanship. That makes it great for DIY people.
If I was going to live in a log home, and didnt want to do any of the work but had cash, I would take the class and then hire people to peel, stack, spike, etc.
Yuhjn
Fri, 2010-02-19 18:25
I appreciate your input. You confirm what I have come to realize. At first, I wanted a full scribed log home with the saddle notches because I loved that look. When I began to research, I realized that the technique is not something that an inexperienced builder should try. I also care about quality, not just aesthetics. I want the home to be built well, not an experiment gone wrong. So, I have acquired a taste for the butt and pass with chinking (I used to hate chinking but now I like it) since I have seen the pictures of your member houses. Also, I have read about the strength and durability of butt and pass. My husband likes it too.
I know nothing*
*
about maple island. I do know that if you can get an old timer Norwegian guy with a scribe, mallet, and gouge, the resulting home could be quite good. I suspect however that the "handcrafted" home is Canadian Chinkless, (or worse), where none of the lessons learned of how to keep your logs good.
Anyway, that is why I suggest taking the class before making any decision... You might spend >1k/person (with travel), but you'll make an informed decision of what to look for (both good and bad)
good luck on your decision.
StressMan79
Fri, 2010-02-19 19:01
You know, I've learned enough from your member posts to know the value of being informed. Last fall I went to one of those Log and Timber Home shows in my area and it was a waste of time because we were already biased against buying a kit after what we had learned from this site. (Satterwhite Log Homes were there among others;)
The members give such strong testimony that what you learn in the class is worth it. So, I've decided that if I can learn how to make this happen safely, soundly, and economically then the commuting and membership costs would be a good investment- which is my favorite kind. I'll start saving $$$. Thank you for your response.
Ramrodder -
Just a cautionary comment...
A while back, there was a guest on our fine website who took offense at some of the posts from our members and made some comments that were deemed very aggressive and hostile by the Association's "powers that be." As a result, if my recollection is correct, that person may have been preemptively banned from attending one of our classes (see http://www.loghomebuilders.org/rebar-spacingand-driving). I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone unnecessarily, and I encourage you to keep an open mind and thick skin when soliciting comments and replying.
When I first found the LHBA, I devoured every public post on the forum. I read every article in the public areas of the website. I asked several questions, most of which elicited similar responses from members that your questions prompted. In the end, it became clear to me that the LHBA was the keepers of the kingdom of freedom from mortgages, and I needed to get in a class and learn all I could.
I attended the first Vegas class last year, and I have been a devoted follower of the website and the members' progress ever since. I am just finishing a relocation to a new town with my legal practice, and I hope to start planning and building soon. I have no doubt that I will have many new questions when that process begins.
BUT...
None of this would have been possible for me if I had tried to push the members too hard in the public forum. The LHBA is not a business (not exactly), but rather a collection of like-minded freedom fighters (fighting debt and cookie cutter McMansions) who jealously and carefully guard the secrets of their great fortune. Those secrets (the fundamental building and design ideas) are the most valuable asset of the Association (comeradery is priceless, folks - no jabs, please!). It only makes sense that the members would be very careful to avoid giving away the most valuable information for free when we all had to pay our way and attend class to get that same information.
I highly suggest that you continue reading the public forum posts - ALL OF THEM - from the very beginning of the archive on the board. There is a huge amount of information just in those posts that will answer most of your initial questions and demonstrate the reasons why we LHBA-ers urge you to go to the class. Then, once you get to the class, all will be revealed and become clear, and you'll never regret the investment.
At the same time, I urge you to avoid escalating the rhetoric with members. Email and forum posts cannot convey the tone of our voices in our comments. What could be seen as sarcasm in print may be completely innocent and intended in a different spirit entirely. BUT, even if a member's post is sarcastic or critical, remember that the goal of your search is to learn the best and least expensive method possible to build your dream home. I expect that the LHBA method will do that for you - so don't let an individual's remarks (however innocent or sarcastic) prevent you from attending the class by responding with hostile posts. If history has taught us anything, it is that the LHBA staff are protective gatekeepers who do not suffer unwarranted disruptions on their website.
Just my two cents...
DGC
use your powers for good
we all possess God-given talents. Persuasiveness and diplomacy are obviously 2 of DGC's. I'm glad you're on our side:)
no powers here
LOL... From your keyboard to God's ears. I wish my wife thought I was that persuasive! I could have had invested so much more money in my hobbies over the years!
DGC
persuasiveness
well.... you got her to marry you, didn't you?!
ooops!
WHEW! my grammar sure needs work. I should try proof-reading once in a while....:)
Teehee....
Not to put words in my wife's mouth, but I expect her retort would be:
"Don't remind me."
DGC
talents
i can wiggle my ears, nose and juggle at the SAME TIME!! : ) n i make killer chicken chili!
gifted
you're totally gifted ramblinman. I'm humbled by you obvious superiority (and would you mind sharing your chili recipe?)!
chili
panderson..if i SHARED my chili recipe id have to have you taken out!! : )))
Satterwhite
Tue, 2010-02-16 18:26
I'd like opinion on Satterwhite too.. I've got no dog in the fight, but have spent the last several days looking at different options for getting logs, and the biggest problem I see is that log home companies make it easy to get logs and log kits, whereas do it your self folks have to either own a forest, or know someone who does.
So, does anyone have any good information about Satterwhite -or a log selling company... just to get logs, somewhere close to the NC/SC area.
Thanks friends.
not true!
SO not true:) we found a great deal on logs and we don't know anyone in the kit industry, or own our own forest. our logs came from someone we'd never met before!
not true
SO not true:) we found a great deal on logs and we don't know anyone in the kit industry, or own our own forest. our logs came from someone we'd never met before!
Beware talking points, folks...
please read.. sorry for the mess
Fri, 2010-02-19 22:04
Wow – folks I’m sorry for contributing to a mess. I’m going to post 1 more time, simply to clarify and hopefully put to rest any controversy I somehow helped to start. I’m not going to post again on this topic, just want to clear the air and hopefully some misunderstandings.
Below are 3 quotes from replies to my postings – and my response after
1. “where a bunch of new users tried to stir up trouble and controversy. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I'm not saying it isn't either.
• I am relatively new, but I think I have only posted 2 or 3 times in an entire year - certainly not trying to stir up trouble and controversy.
The last paragraph of my post said this – “My opinion is that the LHBA has some great, great people, ideas, and resources available (and I haven't even taken the class yet).
2. “You need us, badly. Our way will help relieve the stress you seem to be under.”
• Living overseas has been the most DE-stressing thing my family has ever done. Trips to Malaysia, Singapore, Beijing, Hong Kong, Philippines – hard to be more relaxed than that.
3. “jpetrey's comment came out a little too glib - sounds like it came straight from a kit log brochure.
Beware talking points, folks...”
I’m not even sure how to respond to that comment, but my point was actually to say one of the challenges people have is the EASE of working with a Kit company simply because they are easy to find and advertise so much. I have no desire to buy a Kit or work with a Kit company. – I just want to find a good place to get logs. As many have said, one trip to a log home show, or listening to Kit home sales pitch is enough to convince even a rookie like me I should build my own.
DGC – your post was very well written, not condescending or sarcastic, and exactly the kind of post I was trying to promote. I have read all the forums, just asking for a little kindness… no more, no less.
If anyone doesn’t agree that is good to use kind words, not sarcastic or condescending, with others, I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree. I’m also sorry if I misinterpreted anyone’s opinions, ideas or suggestions.. I’ll be more careful in the future.
I will continue to read LHBA, and appreciate EVERYONE”s feedback, suggestions, challenges and ideas. I am hoping for the class Summer of 2012 when we come back to the USA
Peace out folks.
Something is sticking in my craw...
I may be getting too old (66). I try to be positive and not comment on others - what they write or their spelling and syntax.
I hate it when an individual criticizes others and then effectively does exactly what they criticize. What I am talking about is requesting honey over vinegar (asking for a little kindness) and then using the words "sarcastic or condescending" TWICE!
I am not in elementary school. I have erased the rest...
agreed
I'm with you there, Rocklock
jpetrey response...
Thanks John for sticking with us and not going away mad. In class we were assured that there are numerous ways to get logs that are affordable. The Company that you mentioned in your previous post was not on the list. I personally acquired my logs from a private party as the result of my posting a wanted ad on Craigslist. I feel confident that you will be successful in finding pretty logs at an affordable price after class. Betcha a quarter that you don't use the broker that you mentioned in your previous post (not that there is anything wrong with that Company). Our organization is geared toward working around the middleman and I have a feeling that you'll fit right in. I expect to be invited to your peeling party.
jpetrey
you didnt create a mess. we hope that you join our ( sometimes dysfunctional ) family...ive said it before n ill say it again..its a shame how some people get treated when they ask a few simple questions.
were building in a unconventional way..it does get old, time n time again when im trying to explain to an engineer, an architect..or a contractor..what and how im building. their eyes get crossed and ive heard more than once that its just not possible..that it will sink..fall over n on n on. but i try n keep the same open mind that im asking them to keep.
someone said you get more bees with honey..n i agree. same holds true that you dont teach people anything by pushing them away. we should all remember we didnt understand what butt n pass was all about when we first got here.
my 2 cents
give too much away
fossten do you think our responses to jpetrey gave too much away? thanks
panderson
No I don't. The value of going to class is unmatched. Even our heroes like Vern and Ronnie and Stargazer don't give enough detail in their photos to compare to the knowledge you gain in class.
Knowledge Gained
My thoughts exactly. I read and re-read all the info on the non-member side. I linked to all the blogs and photo albums I could. I think all my research gave me a head start that I was really able to impress my wife with the first 1/2 day or so in class. :) I don't think, though, that I would have been able to figure out the complete B&P system no matter how long I studied without taking the class. The one important thing that really sold me on the whole system could have only been realized through the class too; a home built using this system is a fortress. We sustained a lot of damage when hurricane Rita came through a few years back and a lot of folks in this area are still a little shaken. I wouldn't be scared to sit through one of those things in a Skip style B&P home after seeing the construction that goes into one.
butt and pass isn't a secret technique
any knowledgable builder could figure it out if they cared too. the main value of the class is gleaning the knowledge of those who have went before us. Even if you plan to have a contractor build the house you will learn the problems they are going to come to you with, or know how to do certain things alot cheaper than the normal contractor might plan to do it.
Reading this thread made me update my signature line, which could almost be a slogan of the LHBA.
To prove the value of the class: all of us members self-censor ourselves so we don't destroy the value of the info to the association higherups. That means everyone who has taken the class got enough out of it to be grateful. The expense of the class can probably be earned back by at least 10x in the purchase of your logs alone.
good luck to ya'll whatever your decisions are
Also not true.
SO not true:) we found a great deal on logs and we don't know anyone in the kit industry, or own our own forest. our logs came from someone we'd never met before!
Same here, and while I paid more than many have (can't beat free) for their logs, it was still a fraction of the cost of ANY kit on the market anywhere.
SAME here!
We knew no one with trees - got lucky & found a source. Our logs will cost us less than 10% of what the kit logs would have cost & be about 200% better!
IT seems that many that are sceptical, negative re: LHBA have not yet realized that many of us ..............had researched kit homes in GREAT detail before we knew LHBA even existed!
We also count our blessings that we DID find LHBA before we bought whatever "wonderful kit home" our sales person had convinced was our "dream home"
Logs
Wed, 2010-02-17 09:07
Ragdump
You got that right,after going to 4 log home shows and hearing how there's were the best and the other are junk
(then finding out there mostly all junk) and reading many log home magazines (that are for people that have millions of dollars to spend) I would have given up if I didn't find LHBA
lots of stuff
1) this is an organization that supports freedom, firstly. One of the best ways to drag yourself out of self perpetuating debt is to build your own home. If you can't that is fine. I know of two members who are wheelchair bound (and a third that will soon be...more on that coming soon to the member's section). They can't do as much as some, but they got their house built correctly, for much less than a "kit" will cost.
2) Yuhjn and myself are not being "high and mighty." We just have seen the benefit of the class and want to share that benefit with as many like minded people as possible.
3) some of the benefits of the class are
How to source real logs
How to get free/cheap building materials
How to get free/cheap help (often with their own insurance)
How to do things not taught in class (members are experts in all sorts of things...( I know a member who is a firefighter, a dentist, a lawyer, several engineers), they all bring things to the table.
How to make your structure outlast you and your kids' kids
4) members are some of the most giving people I have ever met. When they find a good deal, they share it (for example 75% off heavy duty tarps or cheap sparker sticks). They'll give you a hand with no expectation of getting quid pro quo.
Anyway, no member will have experience with Satterwhite logs, since they aren't really logs and cost way too much for our liking. If you are spending any more than 10k, delivered on logs anywhere in the country, you are spending too much.
The best thing about this site
Just for the record, the best thing I like about this site is the links provided by some of the members to the homes they have built. I think I've found six in all. Six different sites that explain step by step how things are done using pictures to illustrate the various steps. A ton of work was put into those sites for no financial gain whatsoever. Looking back I think I've spent maybe 15 to 20 hours the past month studying them, they are vastly entertaining and incredibly instructive.
Just want to throw a Thanks out there for those that have documented their hard work so it can benefit others later. Super cool stuff. Thanks.
comments
Tue, 2010-02-16 19:29
if you are truly committed to the LHBA, and want to share how great it is with as many other folks as possible, I'll tell you something you probably have heard before.. it's an old saying that's been around a while.
"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"
I have found it true in school, work, with family and friends, and hope you will take it to heart. My opinion is that the LHBA has some great, great people, ideas, and resources available (and I haven't even taken the class yet), but condescending and sarcastic comments will simply alienate you, and make others believe some of the negative press that is out there.
Stay Positive!!
jpetrey
> You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
You need us, badly. Our way will help relieve the stress you seem to be under. And it is where you will find some of the best information you will ever find anywhere, on the subject of living inexpensively.
Like this: If I were trying to catch flies, I'd bet I'd attract more with my horse manure. Why waste the cost of a good healthy Honey.
By the way, I'm a retired doctor and a legal expert in a particular technical area of law.
Take the class and I'll bet the stress will drip away before the end of the weekend. You can't be around such like minded people without learning more about what you thought you already knew.
Welcome to the family.
Come on now.
"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"
I have found it true in school, work, with family and friends, and hope you will take it to heart. My opinion is that the LHBA has some great, great people, ideas, and resources available (and I haven't even taken the class yet), but condescending and sarcastic comments will simply alienate you, and make others believe some of the negative press that is out there.
Stay Positive!!
Like you and Ramrod I am also not a member. I've read all the posts in this thread and can't see where the perceived negativity is coming from. This whole forum's purpose of existence (as well as the LHBA I suppose) is to help people find a better way of doing things. They're not just advocating a building method (Butt and Pass) here, It's more of a lifestyle. After 5 minutes of hopping around this site I discovered several things. They don't like mortgages and kit log homes are pretty much considered, without exception, to be shiny, well laquered pieces of crap.
It's been explained to the OP several times why kits are a bad idea, one of the posters even did an internet search and found 3 different complaints about the manufacturer that he's interested in. I'm no expert, but complaints like the ones left for "Satterwhite" aren't a good harbinger for happy home ownership.
3 bad reviews, 9 good reviews. Makes me think that some of the 9 maybe didn't wait for the paint to dry before laying down a positive response. No matter really, the 3 bad reviews from people that should be utterly thrilled with their new home would be enough to put me off the company.
Reading this thread I'm thinking if anything it is too polite (If there can even be such a thing) and some plain speak was left on the table in the hopes of not insulting or offending Ramrod.
Well said
It's been explained to the OP several times why kits are a bad idea, one of the posters even did an internet search and found 3 different complaints about the manufacturer that he's interested in. I'm no expert, but complaints like the ones left for "Satterwhite" aren't a good harbinger for happy home ownership.
3 bad reviews, 9 good reviews. Makes me think that some of the 9 maybe didn't wait for the paint to dry before laying down a positive response. No matter really, the 3 bad reviews from people that should be utterly thrilled with their new home would be enough to put me off the company.
Reading this thread I'm thinking if anything it is too polite (If there can even be such a thing) and some plain speak was left on the table in the hopes of not insulting or offending Ramrod.
Normally, I won't bother responding to a thread like this. Asking opinions about a particular kit home company on a site dedicated to DIY only sends a message (to me anyhow) that the OP didn't bother to read any of the site to gain an appreciation of what the site is about, or that the OP is soliciting for whatever reason. (being that he posted two threads for the same thing, this also has merit) Getting immediately upset with answers given is a sure sign of someone won't be around very long, and likely won't have anything to contribute to the forum in the future. Now with a second poster asking about the same company, it's reminiscent of the organized thread postings a while back, where a bunch of new users tried to stir up trouble and controversy. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I'm not saying it isn't either. I don't understand the whole concept of getting upset. The advice is worth every cent you paid for it. If it wasn't what you wanted to hear, it's no big deal since your wallet still weighs the same. We all find our way to LHBA for different reasons. Some, it's for seeking a way build a home. For others, it's looking for a free lunch. If anyone is offend by me saying this, that is not my intent. I'm only attempting to enlighten those who may have otherwise missed the point.
But anyhow, I decided to post because I wanted to commend ccosborne3 on his comment. He truly embraces the purpose and meaning of LHBA. Thank you for expressing it so well.