Sat, 2010-05-22 07:49 — ChainsawGrandpa
Too many questions.
Went to PC's for college, and have been away from Macs for too long. Where I'll be living I won't be able to get a connection (no, no phone either) so I was thinking:
1. Without spending too much money, what Mac laptop do I buy (G4?)
2. I plan to stop at (legal, without stealing) WiFi hot spots. I'll only get online or my mail ad se updates every week or two.
3. Can I have free intenet access if I have a free e-mail account, and WiFi?
4.What do I need for a WiFi connection?
G'pa
Comments
Ragdump I was gonna start
Mon, 2010-06-07 16:39
Ragdump
I was gonna start yelling "FOOD FIGHT"
cheap repeater...
I have seen this done, and it works quite well:
Use a bounce board made from polished aluminum (large) (or stainless polished). Mount it to where you can bounce your signal from your tower/house directional to another directional at the neigbors house on a tower. Use a high decible gain directional antenna on both sides. Use a good laser pointer to aim devices!
I have seen this work over a mile and a 300' mountain peak.
I think you can google it or search it online, if you can get signal!! :)
wifi and line of sight
Wed, 2010-05-26 23:57
the reason wifi is only line of sight, (LOS), (even with a repeater, each node must be in los of it), is that wifi utilizes a band in the 2.4, 3.6 and 5 GHz range, which allows a lot more bandwidth and transfer speed than the lower frequency bands, but the trade-off is that you can't bend those waves. Even satillite internet or tv is los. Over the horizon radios utilize the range from about 30 Mhz and down, with each gigahert being 1,000,000,000 cycles per second and a megahert 1,000,000 cycles per second. The lower frequency signals can be bent by the atmosphere and redirected to a station on the other side of an obsticle (such as the earth's curve, or a mountain), however, you're not going to pass data that fast, and you'll need 50ft long antennas and 1Kw amplifiers to utilize that spectrum. Thus, it's just impractical for 99.9% of people to use.
That being said, the reflector on top of the hill sounds to me like the best solution.
Steve
Knight technology
Wow, good first post (I believe it is your first). Anyway, welcome to the club.
-Peter
mac boo
I would personally recommend against Apple products. They cost a lot more and deliver less. Not to mention the available software for a mac is a small fraction of what's available on PC.
Also iPad might be nice for a little web browsing on the couch but it's not a serious computing tool. Just try composing anything longer than 10 sentences on a touch-screen and you'll know what I'm talking about.
PC's are much more cost effective and more versitile.
Yuhjn speaks the truth
I have both PC and mac. my wife does very little technical computing, and therefore loves her mac. Programs I want to run (finite element, CAD programs), don't work on her mac.
However, the macbook takes much less power than my PC, (~1/5 the power), which will be important in my off-grid location. I'll also be teathering to an Iphone, which will be easier on a macbook. I don't want to do any design/engineering in the woods, so I think I'll go with mac for this application. However, there are arguments for/against each side.
mac
im gonna have to toss my chips in with apple. ive never owned a pc..ive been on a mac from day one. i installed 3 of them in the coffee house i owned in chicago n charged $1. for 10 minutes use..young folks would come in and loved em. ( thats probably why the stock has preformed the way it has )
granted, i only use it for web browsing, email, photos n music and she gets that done : )
CAD
There are numerous CAD programs for Mac. AutoDesk AutoCAD is the most used computer aided design (CAD) software in the market - There's a Mac Version. Yes there are a few CAD programs that don't have a Mac Version.
cad2
I was specifically talking about nastran/patran, abaqus cae, and ansys, for FE, and ProEngineer, CATIA V5, ETC for CAD. There are LOTS of very worth while programs that are not offered on mac.
Also, I don't know how possible it would be to build an airframe/aerospace components using Autodesk programs. They may be the biggest, but not the best, at least for aerospace applications.
A "MAC" is a "PC" but OS is different.
Interesting that most people here are actually comparing operating systems. What they do not realize is that if you have a "MAC" you could have a "PC". Mainly because now Apple uses the "PC" infrastructure and are susceptible to the same issues that "PC's" had (especially with dual boot systems). Now I know this is way out there but, I have owned "PC" and "MAC" and they both do the exact same. Now if you compare Operating systems (OS), than Linux based systems are far superior to that of Microsoft. Apple has been using a Linux kernel since OSX. Microsoft will never because of the "open source" implications. Just a note: most cell phones (minus the Microsoft ones) run a Linux kernel. Even all your standard WIFI routers and distribution hubs run Linux kernel, as a matter of fact the land line company (telephone) uses a Linux kernel switcher. The most stable operating system is a Linux kernel system.
My main computer (non-apple) is UBUNTU Linux and I have virtual box which I can run a virtual operating system of any type on the same "PC". I run ProEngineer, Solid Works, Inventor, Maya, and AutoCad. I never have viral problems, and never am susceptible to crashes. I know my system might sound too technical or difficult for some, but once set up it is actually less technical and less cumbersome than and "MAC" or "Microsoft PC". If my "Microsoft" virtual window crashes I just click close and open a new one. Within seconds I am to a brand new OS. By the way yes my Microsoft virtual window crashes more than any other OS I run (Solaris, OSX, HP's UX, IBM's AIX, Unix, and many Linux distributions). Mainly because all other operating systems of the world are built around a Unix/Linux kernel except for Microsoft. When will they catch on??
My other computer (Apple) also runs UBUNTU Linux the exact same way my non-Apple does minus the computing power of running multi OS and running CAD software. BUT my Apple is great for video editing and photos and graphic design, plus I like the feel of working with a "clean machine".
So as far as using a "PC" or a "MAC" for the everyday use and even extra use they are comparably equal now that Apple has gone to an Intel based infrastructure.
Just my computer/mechanical engineer input...
Not so fast
While a Mac can now operate under the Microsoft operating system it doesn't make a Mac a PC. However it does expose them to the damages of PC operating system and PC viruses. But that's kinda like a Ford assembly line worker driving a Chevy. It just ain't right.
mac
First let's clear up so misconceptions.
1. a "PC" does not have to run windows
2. a "Mac" does not have to run MacOS
3. MacOS gets viruses just like WindowsOS. The reason you dont see as many mac viruses is the same reason you dont see as much CAD software. Less developers target mac, both legitamate software engineers and also those who make viruses. There is nothing special about a mac that somehow magically protects it from viruses. For example: http://www.switched.com/2009/09/01/apple-quietly-admits-macs-get-viruses/
4. There have been suggestions that you have to "upgrade your pc software all the time" which would be just as true of mac if software vendors upgraded their mac software packages as often as they do their windows software packages. Software upgrades are determiend by the 3rd party software vendor, not the hardware vendor, nor the OS vendor. Again you will see LESS updates to software for Mac mainly because developers are not as prompt about upgrading mac software. The mac market is much smaller so developing software upgrades is far less lucriative since your user base is far smaller.
5. Someone said "A mac is a PC". That is a big misundersatnding. A Mac (new ones anyway) run with the same X86 chip that PC's do. This is why you can actually install Windows on Mac hardware. But you cannot install Mac OS on non-mac hardware (good luck trying). Mac is specially designed hardware which looks nice and costs a lot more than PC hardware.
6. Someone suggested that Macs are "faster". That is completely untrue. In fact since they run on the same chip, they have the same speed. And in fact there is a lot more windows based software which takes advantage of dual and multi-core processors, which actually makes windows software faster in many cases. (no you wont see any difference when browsing the web or reading email).
And as far as smart-phones go, you'd be much better off getting an Android based phone. Cheaper, MUCH more flexible, and much more powerful software available for it. Plus you dont have to jailbreak your Android to tether it.
I've been developing software professionally for almost 20 years. I've been a computer user for more than 30 years. It is not uncommon for me to use Mac, Windows, Linux, and Unix OS's all before lunch. And very little has changed in terms of what hardware is what, and what OS's are what, in the last 20 years.
Apple makes very nice, but overpriced, hardware. Their software has always been pretty poor. So sure if you do nothing more than a little web browsing and some email, you can buy a mac if you want to overpay for the hardware. But there are many other options out there which cost less and do more.
Looking for cheap computer hardware? If you dont want to buy used, try this http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/
As an example you can get the following for $425:
Mac is a PC
The definition of a "PC" is a Personal Computer... A "MAC" is a "Personal Computer". That is why I had said a MAC is a PC.
Have you ever heard of a "Power PC"? It has the "MAC" structure and runs Mac OS.
My IBM Thinkpad also runs MacOS X within my Linux operating system. So yes an x86 can run MAC operating software.
pc
The definition of a "PC" is a Personal Computer... A "MAC" is a "Personal Computer". That is why I had said a MAC is a PC.
Sure that's true. But it's common to refer to a computer running Windows OS as a "PC". Note all the Mac commercials where it's "Mac" and "PC" talking.
And yes, like I said, a modern mac uses the same X86 chipset that windows PC's use. However the peripheral hardware is often different, and Mac OS has very limited support for hardware that is not packaged into the Mac hardware line. Depending on exactly what hardware you're trying to run, you may find drivers. But I would not recommend that people attempt to buy a windows PC hardware package and try to get Mac OSX running on it. Apple makes this intentionally difficult to dissuade people from purchasing hardware cheap and then putting a pirated copy of MacOSX onto that hardware.
Oh, and yeah of course you can run an emulator. Personally I find doing work with either an emulated OS or and RDP connection to be so horribly sluggish and slow as to drive me nuts. I avoid doing anything other than running an OS natively on the hardware... otherwise it feels like you're running a 386 from the early 90's.
I can post here w/my android phone
I just have to "disable rich text".
Just figured it out... sweet!
EVO
There is an EVO-4G waiting for me at work that I'm picking up tomorrow morning. Those things are increidble. Coolest mobile computing device ever released commercially in my opinion. Micro-HDMI out!? Are you kidding me? Front facing camera, two-way video calling, 4.3 inch screen?!?!.... EVO4G one amazing mobile device. And all completely open and non-proprietary!
You can actually turn your EVO4G into a wireless hot-spot for up to 8 devices. It's just sick what that thing can do.
cool!
Now that sounds awesome. Have fun!!!
Not worth arguing with a friend
Computers are not a subject worth arguing about with friends. I guess we all have our preferences for our own reasons.
argument
I certainly dont want to argue with you either Ed. I'm glad you're enjoying your mac, there is no argument that they are very nice computers.
Everyone's situation is different, and there is no "best" solution for everyone.
Re-reading what I wrote it does sound like I'm slamming Apple, but that was not my intention. Please allow me to color on the other side of the page a little bit:
Mac is in-fact the most stable. A lot of that is due to Apple controlling both the hardware and the OS. Windows OS runs on "who knows what" hardware, which makes it inheriently less stable. Apple is easier to use. So when things to get corrupted and you have to restore you system from scrach, it's easier on Apple. Apple's support is also much more standardized. So when something breaks that is beyond your ability to fix, you take it to the Apple store where standardized service is performed. As opposed to taking it to the guy at Geek Squad or whatever.
If you dont know nuttin about computers, and you're not on a shoe-string budget, and you dont play video games, then your best bet is a mac.
If money is very tight, and you are a comfortable working with computers, or you play video games, windows is probably right.
If you are technical enough and dont play video games, you can go with Linux and it's free. All you pay for is the hardware. And if you are technical enough to run Linux you can probably buy your computer as "parts" and assemble it yourself. This can save you a quite a bit, but takes time and knoweldge. If you know what you're doing you can buy and build a very powerful system for about $300. (go to computer fairs, pay cash, haggle)
But Ed we can certainly agree that Mac's are very nice computers. I suspect we can also agree that for some, Mac may be the best answer, but not for all.
Pull up a chair
. . and grab a cold beer and we can argue face to face. Until we fall off the chairs. <smile>
proactive conflict resolution
proactive conflict resolution in action. LOVE IT!! (note to self: get more beer....)
Huh?
> I would personally recommend against Apple products. They cost a lot more and deliver less. Not to mention the available software for a mac is a small fraction of what's available on PC.
Just want to share how much I've saved over the last 8-10 years. I was a die hard PC fan. Never knew anything else. I could do anything on that platform. Rarely needed any help fixing problems. Then in '01 or '02 I stepped up to the plate and decided to jump with both feet. Bought my first Mac Laptop. Period. I didn't need to spend hundreds of dollars each year on updated programs, spyware and anti-virus protection. In fact, I can't do anything myself if this thing crashes. Of course that's because I've never had to learn how. In fact I've never needed help until my almost old (8 yo) laptop's hard drive gave out.
I agree PC laptops are cheaper. That's a way to justify needing to replace them to keep up every couple of years.
I've never found a need for any program that I wanted that wasn't offered for Mac. That may be because I don't play many games. My battery outlasts a PC. My laptop doesn't get as hot as PCs because I don't need anywhere near as much speed to keep up with a PC. Simpler operating system. Every new MS operating system is still trying to make them as easy to operate as a Mac.
I have two Mac laptops now. I still haven't spent as much as when I had cheaper PCs.
I use a PC my second one
tethering iPhone?
Peter- I've heard the iPhone can do tethering to a laptop... but that AT&T doesn't support it?
I love my iPhone, but I'd love it MORE if I could use my laptop from my car when I'm in the stix.
Yuhjn- I know a LOT of people who agree with your perspective, but Mac is a great solution for a lot of people. If I look at how much time I LOST fighting spyware/virus/OS failures with PC's over the last 5 years, it makes my MAC price worthwhile. I know there are a lot of high-power apps that are pc only, and respect that point, but I think advising people AWAY from mac is a bit heavy... just my $.02
tethering
indeed, you need to have a "jailbroken" Iphone to unlock the capability of the tethering. To keep network traffic down, att disabled this feature. Don't look at me as the expert! I have a friend that helps me out wit this kind of thing (Matt @ aerotechpc.com) [not his email, just who you can contact if you piddle around his site]. There are droid phones who advertise being a moblie hotspot for up to 4 phones, so this is supported (I believe by sprint).
FWIW.
-Peter
I don't have an iPhone but I have 3G with At&t
I can get my e-mail linking my laptop with my phone. Same with the internet I believe. Never tried.
you might think about a kindle
I just heard that kindle offered free 3g. the problem is it is still black/white, find for email (and likely posting on the forum!).
Any way you might check into this, and I don't know about how to tether to this, but this might be a good deal.
Kindle
I use my Kindle to read these forums when I am at an airport or somewhere I just do not want to fire up the laptop. It is slow and I have never tried to post anything. I don't see any reason why it would not work, unless you don't have a signal in the area. I love my Kindle for reading!
Hate to be dumb, BUT . . .
What is a Kindle?
kindle
Wed, 2010-05-26 10:01
Ragdump
It one piece of fire starter !
kindle
Wed, 2010-05-26 10:23
Ragdump
This is what it really is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle
Just a thought... or two.
Hey Saw'Pa, first of all, I'm new to the family, been reading as much as I can on the forums. I've seen quite a few of your posts, thanks for the good info. To the point... I'm a Mac user and would recommend them to anyone, but they aren't cheap, at least $1,000 for a new one (#1). It sounds like you plan to get a laptop then drive to town every week or so to find a WIFI hot spot and check your email. If that was my situation I think I'd drive straight to the nearest library. I don't know it for a fact, but I'd put money down that there's not a public library in the whole United States that doesn't have free internet access. You're already paying for it, might as well get some use out of it. Then you could use that thousand bucks on a new chainsaw, rifle, shiny BBQ and some steaks, couple fishing poles, 1/4 of a hot-tub, beer, etc...
However, if your heart's set on owning a new computer; any new Macbook will be ready for WIFI out of the box. In fact even if you get a used computer it's almost a certainty that it will have a wireless card built-in (that's what you need to access WIFI hot spots #4) On Macs they call it an Airport Card. If you run across a used computer that does not have a built-in wireless card, it's probably pretty old and not much better than a paper-weight. Although if this computer were a good deal (free) it's still not hopeless because you can get an external WIFI adapter, but that's a highly unlikely scenario. Now, as far as WIFI hotspots go (#2 & 3) there are free ones out there, but the majority I think charge a fee. It may not be too bad if you only use it 2-3 times a month, but much more and it would probably be kinda expensive. The most common WIFI hotspots are truck stops and Starbucks where you get listen to people sit around and complain about the economy while drinking $8 coffees. There are alternatives to this, one is tethering your cell phone to the computer and using it as a modem so you get internet access anywhere you get cell phone service, it's not as fast, but you can use it pretty much anywhere. The other is that you can get high-speed internet access at virtually any location through satellite. If you can get satellite TV, you can get internet also. It's fast and reliable, but pretty expensive $60+/mo and you have to buy equipment to get started.
Anyway hope some of this is helpful, if you have any questions about Macs, or computers in general, or internet/cell phones, etc.. I probably know a guy with the answer. Good Luck.
second what was said
but would add that most satellite isp's (Internet Service Providers) also have fairly tight restrictions on downloading (and uploading). You can't use a P2P client or risk going over your quota.
teathering to a cell phone would likely be the best solution for you, G'pa. If you can get 3g+ where you live (I can only get 2g, and that is what I will be doing). I will also be looking into a parabolic reflector/cantenna to amplify your signal. DARPA (PhD's who have infinite gov't funds for cool stuff) have made one of these work at 50 miles. I will try to get it to work with roughly 25x that signal (10 mi). I may go to satellite someday, but for now I am going with these two options.
One final thing to consider is the IPHONE can only teather to one computer at a time. There are some droid phones that can act as a mobile hotspot for several computers (and connect wirelessly) there are no apps that iphones use, you have to crack the phone to do this. The droid advertises this ability, so that might be a deciding factor.
Not that it will make a difference to you, but I just moved, and then left the country for a month. I did not want to subscribe to comcast until I get back, so I have been borrowing internet from a neighbor. My macbook and work PC cannot even see that connection. I have a toshiba that can get it. antenna strengths vary widely in laptops.
-Peter
Peter
Amazing you post from there. What an addict. <smile>
Sure would love to know more about those parabolic antennas. Sounds like something I'll be needing.
Get healthy my friend. You got a lot of friends here.
Long range Wifi
Several years ago I purchased a complete Netkrom Technologies 100MB outdoor wireless bridge with parabolic dishes (super bargain off eBay) in anticipation of not having land based internet service at whatever property I would acquire. This gave me a 20 mile radius to establish a signal if I could find a willing participant to install the other end of the bridge (school, business, home with broadband) and I'd offer to pay a portion of their internet service bill. Looks like I'll get to use half the system, as I was lucky enough to be moving into a county with widespread wifi already available. Actually, I built my own parabolic wifi antenna before buying the commercial bridge. I used an old mini satellite TV dish, and built a solid copper biquad array. I dumped the dish after buying the commercial antennas, but I did hang onto the biquad array.
Just keep in mind when using parabolic/cantenna/yagi style directional antennas, that they only function by line of sight.
Rod, is there anything that
Rod, is there anything that doesn't require line of site to extend a network? I have a neighbor on the other side of my hill that would be willing to share internet. The problem is that the hill rises 100' past my house and then drops about 200 to his. He is probably less than 1/2 mile from me as the crow flies. I have another neighbor that is only slightly over the crest of the hill from me but don't know him well enough to ask for internet service. Their access road has cable installed, mine does not.
Tethering a droid is my other option but the speed is a little slower than normal on my land. Still faster than dialup.
I'd consider omnidirectional
I'd consider omnidirectional antennas for that purpose. Mounted up on a tower as high as possible will help extend range. A half mile isn't that far, but would probably require another tower mounted antenna at the neighbors house. (but maybe not, try without a tower first)
A second option. You could install a repeater station (solar powered) on top of the hill, but then you get into some money doing that. (both for the equipment and getting permission to put up the repeater on whoever's property that is the top of the hill)
Hey G'pa
I'm a Mac user. I believe all Macs now come with the Air Cards installed. So any Mac is good. The iPad is looking inviting. I will likely use my Cell Phone for my access as there is no other choice. I'm 20 miles from a town.