Am Arch,

Here is an old thread of mine that I looked up and pasted here for you to view. The following is the short version, I have a few years of experience and 1st hand knowledge working with these trees, IMHO I hope this will give you a realistic view on beetle kill.

There are many different kinds of beetles, they have been with us all for a long time, every now and then a beetle would go somewhat unchecked and would kill a few trees here and there, that is very common, and I'm sure that this is the same case in which some have built with them in the past. If the weather was cold enough that in itself probably was why they got away with it, cause cold weather will kill them faster than anything else.

What I'm talking about, and what the news as been reporting about is a MAJOR OUT BREAK, (I did say MAJOR) these things are TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL. These beetles during a major out break , such as we have experienced in the south are capable of QUICK KILLING a tree in no time flat.

The Blue Stain that you are commenting on is environmental "Under Southern Pine Inspection Bureau grading rules, stain, and discoloration due to exposure to the elements"........ the key here is they are referring to exposure to the elements being the cause, NOT due to BEETLE KILL. As I mentioned in my earlier thread, improper handling such as banging around a log or cutting into it can cause blue tint, however, this type alone wouldn't be much of a threat as that of the Beetle which actually girdles the tree, thus killing it.

Beetles cause damage by boring under the bark, disturbing the natural processes of the tree. This can be a problem in itself, but the primary, lethal danger is a fungus that the beetles transport. Blue stain fungus will lead to a quick decline by clogging the tree's vascular system. Once in a tree, blue stain fungus is untreatable. It could kill your tree in one season, and is almost certain to kill it within 3 years.

Click on this link for the above statement: http://www.pinery.org/pinebeetle.htm
Clink here to see beetles: http://ag.arizona.edu/extension/fh/bark_beetle.html
Just to name a few: There is John-Paul-George and one called Ringo, LOL

Builders really need to look at this one really hard before they invest a lot of time and money into it.

The bottom line is: 1. I think we all agree the Beetle can and will kill trees. 2. Whenever you buy these logs can you tell when the tree was first attacked, because it better be in the very early stage of infestation. 3. We all know these Beetle killed trees already have a defect, remember "Once in a tree, blue stain fungus is untreatable" do you really want to spend your own money on those logs, put in months of hard work into them, are you willing to take all the risk, and do you honestly think it'll last as long, as the same logs without beetle kill. 4. Most people living in colder areas hasn't seen this problem first hand yet, however, they are moving your way now because or rising temperatures and drought conditions. When they do hit you'll have a totally different outlook on the use of those beetle killed trees, and so will your local lumber mills 5. In my opinion for whatever it may be worth ( $00.00) the safest bet is to cut them down and have them milled while they are still in their first phase.
And to quote Forest Gump: That is all I have to say about that. :-()

Gene

These trees are fine to use as long as you follow the normal precautions for other standing dead trees. (Don't use trees that have been dead for several years, treat with borates as soon as you get them peeled, etc....) The mold carried by the beetle is what kills the tree by "clogging the tree's vascular system" and causes the blue stain. The mold lives on the sap in the tree and when that is gone the mold dies, but the blue stain remains. I have no problem with using my "Beetle Kill" logs and neither does the Log Grader.

Yes people have used them before to build with, however, it's a totally new game now. AmArch, the one sentence that was overlooked by some was the following: "Once in a tree, blue stain fungus is untreatable." My advise as a Forestry Steward is the same one I have received by the Forest Rangers in our area, if you want to use them, have them milled.............. however, I can understand why some people promote the use of them, in northern states where they can't live but for a season at the most because of the cold, or in other areas where they are still low in numbers "like in Co" would be another reason someone might promote the use of these logs, however, if they lived in an area where the OUT-BREAK makes you shutter, their out look would change as well. Keep in mind though they are marching north due to the warming trend, so beware.

ps. Anyone wishing to view 1st hand the true devastation caused by this out-break, we have over 30 acres, you can come and camp out and feel free to stay as long as you wish,"we need the security, LOL" I believe your view will mirror that of my own once you see what these beetles are capable of.

I assume she thinks milling will remove the stain. There is a kit builder who uses them blue stain logs and brags of there beauty--go figure--. This kit builder is out of Montana. Maybe they are ok if trees as thought are in cold climate. I figure it depends on when tree was killed*and who knows that* There are many kit builders who use standing dead fire or beetle kill. Some builders will not. Hey its your home, but i just cant see trying to save on logs unless they are good ones. Save a few thousand on the main structure--not worth it-money is tight there will be good deals out there.

Are the beetles different than wood borers? Do beetles only stay with live trees?

I asked this because recently I found a whole pile of firewood I had sitting since last summer was almost reduced to sawdust from wood borers. I had cut up a large branch of a sweetgum tree that broke off during a storm and never saw any evidence of infestation. I would hate to use a log for a home that might be infested only to find out later that wood borers are munching it up and moving through my log home.

Live is live and dead is dead.
Once a tree is dead it begins to rot, in the same way as using a board that is not treated and exposing it to the elements.
Please read the following.

Mountain Pine & ISP Beetles
(From March 1998 Pinery HOA Newsletter.)

By Brett lemur & Kevin Marks
Wilhelm-Davey Tree Experts.

Forest Service Confirms Beetle Invasion.

The Colorado State Forest Service recognizes the rise in beetle populations and the potential for tree loss. In The Pinery, pine trees have come under attack by two common and dangerous bark beetles. Both the IPS Beetle and the MPB (Mountain Pine Beetle) are in the area.

Beetles Carry Deadly Blue Stain Fungus.

Both the IPS and MPB beetles cause damage by boring under the bark, disturbing the natural processes of the tree. This can be a problem in itself, but the primary, lethal danger is a fungus that the beetles transport. Blue stain fungus will lead to a quick decline by clogging the tree's vascular system. Once in a tree, blue stain fungus is untreatable. It could kill your tree in one season, and is almost certain to kill it within 3 years

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As the Colorado State Forest Service mentioned above, blue stain FUNGUS is untreatable. Also there is a difference between Blue Stain "which is like bruising a tree" and then there is Blue Stain Fungus, Fungus being the difference.

North is North and know matter how many times you call it West, doesn't make it so. I just feel it's only fair to give our fellow members both sides of the issue. We can agree to disagree and everyones else is free to make their own choice.................. :-)